What is the time out policy for EOS?

[Tara.mostowy]

Be there timeouts? Yea or nay? And why does GTB have such bad karma?

I hear it's because they eat babies.

[Wart]

Here are the rules regarding timeouts

http://www.ultimatehandbook.com/Webpage ... #Time-Outs

Apparently we were all able to use up to three timeouts in a best-of-five match up during the season; however, the rules do not state what the timeout rules are for best-of-three format.

That being said one could argue that if you play best-of-five and get three time-outs then one would think you would get one time-out for a best-of-three format.

Yet again the rules do state "It is a turnover if a player calls a Time-Out when their team has no Time-Outs remaining. There is a Check disc and play continues. See section VIII/3."

Hope this helps muddy the waters.

Wart

[dumptruck42]

rules are boring. i'm going to go eat some babies.

[Schmidtc]

That explains a lot, Drew.

For serious though, this behooves us to make sure we clarify exactly what the regular season and EOS rules are regarding time outs and what occurs when time outs are not permitted but called during game play. In the case of our game, a time out was called and it was determined that no time outs were permitted for EOS. The discussion between the two teams resulted in a determination that a turnover should occur. There wasn't any serious arguing and certainly no bad spirit in the course of this discussion. I think the decision to proceed with it as a turnover resulted from a default assumption made from experiences in Ultimate. When a time out is called in Ultimate and is not permitted, a turnover occurs. This was the position of members of my team, and the other team agreed. If there had been more of a dispute, I think we would have readily taken it to the commishioner...but really, there wasn't. Certainly no one wants to get a turnover as a result of such a situation, but I feel like both teams had the opportunity to advocate with regard to the final outcome. And afterward everything seemed rather good natured between the two teams.

[brainwater]

good spirit or bad spirit? it was 1-1 in games and 4-4 in the third game. we were right near the goal when we called for the timeout. just to clarify. no hard feelings as we lost to nix 2-1 the next match.

[Schmidtc]

I don't think there is a clear cut answer as to what was the right call to make. From the looks of the rules and from the precedent set in Ultimate, it would seem that the right call was made. Was it unclear if time outs were allowed? Yes. So that's where some of the cloudiness comes in, and I can understand why an alternate outcome might be advocated for. Does that necessarily indicate that the call should have gone one way or another...I don't think so. Presumably your team was tired and that's why the call was made. Being able to take a time out when it's not allowed, is an unfair advantage and that's why it results in a turnover in Ultimate. I don't see what that should be different in Goaltimate.

And I don't think it's warranted to associate spirit with what the score happened to be at that moment. There's no way of knowing what the outcome of the game would have been had that call not occurred. Making that call and stopping play changes the game to begin with regardless of whether or not a turnover resulted. We probably wouldn't be having a discussion about spirit if your team had ended up winning the game. It would have just been another turnover which happens a lot in goalty. Or maybe we'd be having this discussion in a reverse fashion had your team kept the disc and scored.

From my perspective, which is to say I was not really involved with the decision, the players on the field discussed the situation and agreed on a call. I don't recall myself or Tara being heavily involved. And if there was a serious concern over what was the right thing to do, then I question why there was so little said at the time. The game could have easily been stopped and the commish could have been asked to make a decision. That didn't happen. There wasn't much discussion and play proceeded. To spin it differently following the outcome doesn't add up for me. That to me is like those players you play against who say, "well, I should call a foul on you, but I'm not going to." If there's a call to be made or a dispute to be had, have it. But I don't think it's warranted to claim that was happened was in bad spirit. Especially not when the rules we have to look to indicate that the correct call was made.

[BEfarb]

if we had gone straight to the commisioner, none of this would have ever happened

[Schmidtc]

We did ask her if time outs were allowed and she said 'no.' Neither side presented the larger issue to her at that time, however.

[Tara.mostowy]

The time out call was made because we were positioned in front of the goal with a score of 4-4, and Nick wanted to pow-wow and strategize our next move. The declaration of a turnover likely cost us that game, and subsequently the set. Unfortunately by the time the commish was brought in, it had already been played out. True, it didn't matter in the long run because we lost to Nix in the next game, but its one of those situations where you'll always wonder what could have been. And everyone's good spirit on the matter was noted, but I think even better spirit would have been to bring the commish in right away to clarify BEFORE playing on.

Anyhoo, I definitely agree that timeout rules and such should be laid out very carefully for all to see BEFORE the tourney begins.

[Schmidtc]

The time out call was made because we were positioned in front of the goal with a score of 4-4, and Nick wanted to pow-wow and strategize our next move. The declaration of a turnover likely cost us that game, and subsequently the set. Unfortunately by the time the commish was brought in, it had already been played out. True, it didn't matter in the long run because we lost to Nix in the next game, but its one of those situations where you'll always wonder what could have been. And everyone's good spirit on the matter was noted, but I think even better spirit would have been to bring the commish in right away to clarify BEFORE playing on.

Anyhoo, I definitely agree that timeout rules and such should be laid out very carefully for all to see BEFORE the tourney begins.

Taking a time out due to tiredness or for strategy is the same...still an advantage, and in this case one the rules don't appear to allow. Again, there's no way of knowing what the outcome would have been, so it's not really fair to speculate either way on that game or the next. Turnovers happen so frequently in goalty, I think it's especially inconclusive to state that possession gives that much more of a likelihood of scoring (over Ultimate). Spirit goes for both teams...there was no request to bring in the commish. Nick agreed to turnover the disc. As a captain, you could have asked that we stop and further clarify. I certainly would not have disagreed with that request. That didn't happen; all the discussion pretty much stayed on the field which didn't include you or me. So I see the dispute and its resolution being just as much on my team as it was on yours. It gets spun one way or the other in retrospect because of the outcome. I think spirit can be just as equally argued for your team keeping the disc out of confusion as it can be for my team getting the turnover to follow the rules. Following the rules shouldn't be considered less spirited.

[trashcollector jr.]

did you guys know that Beavis and Butthead are back on tv? i'd definitely call a timeout to watch that

[drew_levine]

Since the rules were written a long time ago, and Atlanta probably plays more goalty than anywhere else, we could write our own time out rule.

Not thinking about this situation but just about equitable time out rules, these guidelines might work:
1. A timeout should not change the situation on the field and give a strategic advantage to one team over the other.
2. A time out should be used to rest players in a long game (it could be said that weary players can sub on the fly and get rest that way, but often you play savage and need a break)
3. Teams should not be allowed to call as many time outs as they wish whenever they want because that would be disruptive to the game

How about this for a first pass at time out rules:
A. Only the team with possession can call a timeout
B. Only one per game per team (so each team would have up to 5 timeouts each in a best of 5)
C. A player can only call timeout in the clear area, so as not to impact the defensive and offensive momentum in the goal area. That is such a critical 5 seconds when a thrower is looking to throw to the goal, it would not seem fair that in addition to the multitude of throwing options available, the thrower could also call a timeout, reset all players, and then throw a score.

[Boezi]

How about this for a first pass at time out rules:
A. Only the team with possession can call a timeout
B. Only one per game per team (so each team would have up to 5 timeouts each in a best of 5)
C. A player can only call timeout in the clear area, so as not to impact the defensive and offensive momentum in the goal area. That is such a critical 5 seconds when a thrower is looking to throw to the goal, it would not seem fair that in addition to the multitude of throwing options available, the thrower could also call a timeout, reset all players, and then throw a score.

I 100% agree with A. C is a great idea too. B might be too many. We played with 1 per best of 5 this season and I used them twice. Both times my team went down 0-2 or 0-3 and we just needed to recompose. I only felt the need to call a time out 2 or 3 times all season.

[Schmidtc]

Agree with A and C. And agree with Boezi that B is too many times outs. I would say 1 is probably enough, but you could do 2 for a best of five and only 1 for best of 3. Nice work on writing these up. I think an official time out policy would be great to adopt.

[brainwater]

i wonder what the timeout rules are in dischoops. i mean peeps can travel in dischoops. smileyface.

i agree with A. not b or c. you can call a TO anywhere when you play ultimate. and i think i've called at most 5 in 10 years of league play. but they have always been there. one per match seems fair.