Fall League Needs You

[jlee]

Oh trust me I've been accused of cheating in the last 2 fall league drafts. You don't need a core to be accused of that

He has all the players who want to play with him dramatically under rank themselves so no one will draft them before him. There isn't an in depth conversation about upranks among captains beforehand nor at the draft. Dawn did do it more last year, but that's been the issue in the past.
Don't get me wrong, the rest of us captains don't make a big deal about it simply bc most of us feel "I would rather lose with my friends than win with a bunch of people I don't care about" attitude. So, Sean gets who he wants bc we all draft our friends. I mean that's what ultimate is about anyway. We do this in our free time. Why not play and drink with our friends?!

[peteholiday]

Don't get me wrong, the rest of us captains don't make a big deal about it simply bc most of us feel "I would rather lose with my friends than win with a bunch of people I don't care about" attitude. So, Sean gets who he wants bc we all draft our friends. I mean that's what ultimate is about anyway. We do this in our free time. Why not play and drink with our friends?!

I think this is actually part of the problem. Letting people cheat by getting their friends to under-rank themselves is cheating has a bit of a ripple effect.

1. Most captains do not have enough "friends" in the league to fill an entire roster
2. Because of (1), their rosters will consist, at least in part, of people picked up to fill space
3. Underranking your buddy means you get to pick her in a later round than you otherwise would have had to
4. Because of (3), you get to take a different player in an earlier round, reducing the stock of talent available.
5. So when it comes time for teams to grab later-round picks, there's less talent available to them.

Because of all of that, people underranking their friends can produce a noticeable advantage, even for teams who just want to play with their friends.

That's all ignoring the fact that some teams actually do want to win, and this hurts them doubly so.

[Starburst]

Wow, thanks for the slander...

1. I don't tell my friends how to rank themselves. They're all smart people who can think for themselves.
2. This was only an issue in the 2010 draft where most of my friends had only played pickup and 1 or 2 summer leagues. And I believe the reason some of them may have "Dramatically Under ranked" themselves was due to not being sure where to rank themselves, being like me where they had a low opinion of their ability, or saw all the BS ranks during summer league and felt justified being a 2 when they were a 3 or 4. Last Fall everyone was ranked relatively appropriately in my opinion. Please point out any significant under ranks if you see them.
3. My success comes more from my buddies giving me a heads up of other players to look for in the draft who they've met at pickup. I've gotten a bunch of steals from knowing players to look for who other people didn't know. These are people I have 0 contact with prior to the season starting.
4. I'm not sure if you've been to a fall draft - but it's rarely take the best player available or take the highest ranked player on the board. Everyone takes people they know, ranks rarely have much to do with it beyond the cream of the crop players like Mati or Nick Brown who everyone wants to play with. But the 3 - 5 ranks all pretty much go at random, it's not a oh I need to take a 5 left on the board event.

All that being said I guess I've figured out the secret formula to "cheating" in an ALL DRAFT league...

[paul]

The solution is simple.

1) Take all the names and print them on pieces of paper. This will take some effort, especially in cutting them out. But I imagine that beer will encourage people to volunteer.
1.1) Because Sean cheats, he isn't allowed to participate. But he can watch to spot cheating as I am led to believe he is very talented at it.
1.2) Names should be mixed around to induce randomness. Maybe in a big pot or colander or bucket.
2) Make a mat with a number of squares equal to the number of teams we want based on players that sign up. The Jump to Conclusions mat can be used as a starting template.
3) Get a ladder, have Bobo stand near the top (but not the top because commissioner safety is important - though gratuitous safety is encouraged), and dump all the names onto the mat.
4) Post on forums to complain.
5) Play fall league.
6) Post on forums to complain.

[nicemlt]

solution: All Draft and you draft for the next captain in line (and the captain preceding you drafts for you). Teams are allowed a maximum of 4 trades post-draft.

[rbobowski]

I have been a captain for fall league for the past two seasons and have been a witness to Sean's "cheating." I have to say there is nothing wrong with how he drafts and if he knows someone is over ranked he will mention it when asked. I have not known everyone in the draft and typically draft people that I know and that most people who captain know. Which is probably why my teams are a bit on the older side. I have asked a couple of times who people were and Sean was very much obliged to talk about the people that he knew and I am pretty sure I stole a couple of people from his lists because of what he said about them.

Let's just leave this a thread that promotes captaining in Fall League, not one that tears down one that is willing to volunteer to do it.

MLT, I use that system with my middle school kids. It works wonders if they don't know who they are picking for. Not sure I will use it in this draft but thanks for the reminder of the tools available.

Please if we could just start another thread about cheating and allow people who are unsure about it to not be instantly turned off because they might know someone we don't.

Your Fall League Commissioner,

Bobo

[Schmidtc]

Bobo, solid commishing! #plus1

[Starburst]

Thanks Bobo. I apologize for turning this thread into something it was not meant to be.

Fall League is super fun, and I will be encouraging as many people as I can to play. I've already had multiple people ask me when sign ups are.

EXCITED!

[rbobowski]

Alright, moving on.

We still need more captains!!

[jlee]

oh dear lord, nothing i posted is a secret. i have given sean shit about his "drafting" procedures since he started captaining. didn't realize people were so sensitive. suppose i should have put smiley faces.
and i captain all the time.

and sean does cheat.

[rick]

In the past, I've heard a few people saying they don't captain because they don't think they have a chance if they have a weak pair and don't know the draft/players well enough to adjust.

If you are a 5/4 pair captaining and there is a 7/6 pair, after the first round of the draft you have a team with 7/6/6 and one with 5/4/7. As talent drops off considerably after the first round, it's impossible to catch up.


One suggestion I have is that we even things out by adjusting the first round of the draft to help new/low rank captains.

I call this the Adjustment Round.


It's pretty simple. The commish looks at the strength of the pairs. This isn't hard with 10-12 teams.

Then the commish has each team add a third person based on the strength. Not super complicated, just if you are a super strong core (like an 8 and 7) you probably add a rank 0-2 player and if you have a weaker pair (like a 4 and 3) you probably get one of the best players in the draft.

Everyone already has a few people they'd like to pick up, so it's easy for them to just add them. For new captains the commish can help pick a good veteran player who will help the team.


This is not a lot of work, and it does several good things. It lets the commish give new or inexperienced players someone to help without going through the draft crap shoot. It addresses the issue that picking later in the first round does not balance out having a strong pair. And most importantly, it makes it hard for people to complain or to use this as an excuse to not captain.

I'm not generally a fan of fiddling, but this is not a big change nor is it something that will take up a lot of anyone's time. I'd be happy to help.

[brainwater]

In memory of Adam McCargo,

SWINGERS LEAGUE

[nicemlt]

1. JLee and Brandon
2. Emily Merkle and Wilkes Booth
3. JenPen and Bobo
4. Sean Finlay and Aileen Thomas
5. Mark Swanson and Michelle VanHandel
6. Seth Perry and Katie Van Fleet
7. Amber Clinton and Drew
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. ?
12. ?

Is there a big stud dude/stud girl pair here that I'm missing? Looks to be all pretty even (save maybe Sean and Aileen)....I don't have a dog in the fight since I don't play fall league but it feels like tweaking for the sake of tweaking only.

[rick]

Is there a big stud dude/stud girl pair here that I'm missing? Looks to be all pretty even (save maybe Sean and Aileen)....I don't have a dog in the fight since I don't play fall league but it feels like tweaking for the sake of tweaking only.

It's not tweaking for the sake of tweaking. I went back and looked at captain pairs in the past to see if there was a simple adjustment that could be made. And actually, the evenness makes it a good time to try it since the adjustments will be small and there is not a stud pair that might resist what they see as a penalty.

This year is a bit unusual captain-wise, but it still remains valid. If a slight (SLIGHT!) adjustment brings Sean's team more in line, that's good for everyone. Even Sean, who's a smart enough drafter to work with it and will get better games from his opponents as a result.

It also means a pair well over or well under this skill level can captain without feeling like they skew things. If there's a relatively new player thinking about captaining but needs help, this is also a way for them to get it.

It's just something to think about. It's a small effort that could make a difference in people captaining.

[nicemlt]

Is there a big stud dude/stud girl pair here that I'm missing? Looks to be all pretty even (save maybe Sean and Aileen)....I don't have a dog in the fight since I don't play fall league but it feels like tweaking for the sake of tweaking only.

It's not tweaking for the sake of tweaking. I went back and looked at captain pairs in the past to see if there was a simple adjustment that could be made.

This year is a bit unusual captain-wise, but it still remains valid. If a slight (SLIGHT!) adjustment brings Sean's team more in line, that's good for everyone. Even Sean, who's a smart enough drafter to work with it and will get better games from his opponents as a result.

It also means a pair well over or well under this skill level can captain without feeling like they skew things. If there's a relatively new player thinking about captaining but needs help, this is also a way for them to get it.

My point is that while historically the change might have helped; it would have little effect on this year's league. Thus the change would have a VERY marginal impact. To me; that's tweaking for the sake of tweaking.

Do you honestly think draft position and overall "captain strength" is keeping people from captaining this fall? I'm dubious. I sincerely doubt someone will step up who previously wasn't willing to because we adjusted the draft format slightly.

Besides all this; are people really freaking out about their W/L records for Fall League and overall title chances? I haven't played fall in some time but I remember pretty sparse attendance from "strong" players. (Last time I played fall I got all the PT I desired. . .)